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guidance questions:
1. What does Socrates seek to know from Euthyphro? Be precise.
2. What's the relationship between gods and piety?
3. Though there is no conclusion, what have you learned from this discussion?
Ruby Rios
ReplyDeletePHI 100 143
2-3-11
To Euthyphro, the gods believe that piety is bringing justice about, regardless of who you're going against. However, Euthyphro's parents believe that within piety, it means that they come before anything and anyone else; they also believe the gods think the same way as they do. It seems logical that both would have that point of view. I feel that the parents mainly think that way as just another form of ruling over their children. Also, Euthyphro makes a highly valid point as he tells the story of Zeus and Cronos. It is said that Zeus punished Cronos for devouring his sons. That in itself shows there is even justice among the gods regardless of whether the injustice derived from the parents.
Socrates questions Euthyphro because he appears to know a bit more about religion and God; but, what he really wants to know is what God finds just or unjust. The reason Socrates seeks this answer is because he is being accused in court of impiety and wants to find out if the accusations against him are valid or not; acknowledging that he, himself does not know. Piety seems to be a universal justice that pleases God and that applies to everyone; even Zeus and Cronos. Where man fits into this equation is that we can only venture into what is just and unjust; what represents piety and impiety. Euthyphro says that the only way to find the real meaning of both things is by learning. What I learned from this dialogue is that piety is a word with a definition. As far as the interpretation goes, it is any man's game, but to learn is the key. When one is open to learning without judgement as Socrates was to Euthyphro, he will be able to get a better understanding of what there is to be learned.
ReplyDeleteRuby Rios
ReplyDeletePhi 100 143
In addition to what I said it seems pretty clear that anyone whose an individual decides what piety is for themselves and as far as the masses go, the person or people who have the highest power and use religion to their advantage decide what piety is.
Preston Charles
ReplyDelete2-4-11
In the conversation between Socrates and Euthyphro I have learned that they both have been accused for impiety though they impiety differ from on another; Euthyphro prosecuting his dad and Socrates skepticism against the traditional gods they both challenge the existing state of affairs. Socrates tries to grow understanding on why is the gods brought up to such high expectancy if theirs dispute and enmity between gods. What I failed to understand was Euthyphro definition of holiness; what is agreeable to all the gods. If gods disagree on a particular doing what accusation will be made if disagreed? And I think this also confused Socrates. As Socrates try to understand if gods approve what is holy or what is holy is approved. I must admit Euthyphro presented ideas that almost convinced Socrates that traditional was good. I am still curious to figure out what is holy if the gods disagree?
The reading was a little difficult for me, so what I got from it is that Socrates is speaking to Euthyphro. Socrates thoughts are all over the place because he’s being accused in court of corrupting the youth. I believe he just feels like he needs someone like Euthyphro to tell him exactly what he wants to hear even though he knows it himself. Socrates asks Euthyphro to explain certain words, but Socrates ends up giving Euthyphro the definition of what it means to be holy and to be loved. He questions whether he deserves being accused because all of the things he has said would be considered wrong in the eyes of god. What I got from the end is that you have to question everything in life. You have to be open to learning new things and not always doing things in a manner way just because your use to doing things that way.
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ReplyDeleteSHEENA LAMBERT
ReplyDeleteIn this conversation between Socrates and Euthyphro, Socrates questions Euthyphro about the meaning of piety and impiety because he was accused of being impious and wanted have a better understanding of the word . Socrates knew that Euthyphro was known to be religiously inclined and wise therefore he would've respected his opinion. Euthyphro tried to explain to Socrates what he thought those two words meant by drawing an example,the prosecution of his own father for murder. This itself stirred up a lot of controversy between the two because Socrates was rather astonished that he would prosecute his own family whether or not his father was indeed guilty.
What I understand from this text is that piety is a virtue and those who are pious are holy and close to the gods; it can also be defined as being just/right. However impiety is the complete opposite, therefore those who are impious are in fact not holy nor are they close to the gods and have no religious morals or beliefs. This conversation taught me that there can be many different interpretations of what it means to be pious and impious,it all depends on one's opinion. What may be considered as pious to one person may certainly be considered impious to another. The conversation also made me realise that just like Philosophy there can only be one truth but many different opinions.
Joseph Hamm 100-143
ReplyDeleteSocrates questions his friend Euthyphro as to the true nature of piety. Piety is loosely defined as virtue. Euthyphro defines piety as "that which is dear to the Gods". Socrates points out that while we can measure some things in life and be certain about their nature, defining them clearly in a way that is not argued or fussed about, there are other aspects of life, such as the nature of good and evil, or piety and impiety, that man cannot clearly define or measure and therefore, cannot agree upon. He asserts, also that the gods simultaneously love and despise both that which is pious and impious. Basically, he says this is something we cannot KNOW, so we just have to argue about it until the end of time. What is established in there conversation is that the definitions of piety are vague and contradictory. In the light of that, it seems foolish someone to a standard of piety, as the standard varies and often contradicts itself.
Bianca Gayle
ReplyDeleteSocrates speaks with Euthyphro before his court hearing about Meletus accusing him of impiety, since Euthyphro is prosecuting his own father for unintentionally killing a hired hand. Socrates figures Euthyphro, must be a great expert in religious matters if he is willing to prosecute his own father on such a questionable charge. Euthyphro agrees that he does indeed know all there is to be known about what is holy. Socrates urges Euthyphro to teach him what holiness is, since Euthyphro's teaching might help Socrates in his trial against Meletus.
Euthyphro suggests that what is holy is what is agreeable to the gods. Socrates points out that the gods often quarrel, so what is agreeable to one might not be agreeable to all. They also discuss what is Piety and impiety, which they have many definitions for the word.
In the end Euthyrphro leaves in a rush, I believe out of frustration with Socrates and his questioning. I myself am frustrated with his questioning, and confused. This dialogue has no ending, and I struggled to find a conclusion to: what is holy determines what gets approved by the Gods and what gets approved by the Gods determines what is holy—huh?
Base on the knowledge of my understanding, Socrates seek to know from Euthyphro that he understands the meaning of piety and impiety. So he questioning Euthyphro about whatever he can get a good answer from him. in the answer from Euthyphro Socrates can understand more about piety and impiety. As for the relationship between gods and piety, piety is to gods, but gods will never going to piety, for that the gods is the greatest in number, but piety is only 1 part of it.
ReplyDeleteFrom all those readings, according to my knowledge, Socrates wants someone to answer his questions so he have clearer mind before going into court, and that person which is Euthyphro, as he is confusing about what is true and what is not.
Jennifer Bacigalupo
ReplyDeleteThe conversation occurring between Socrates and Euthyphro comes off as bickering and very often interrogative from Socrates’ words. The more precise and demanding Socrates becomes with his questions, Euthyphro tends to shorten his answers because he cannot answer questions to which he has changed his answer and may be agreeing in his mind with Socrates. Euthyphro fears of looking foolish with his answers and continues to dodge what he knows Socrates is looking for, because he doesn’t know the answer himself.
Piety and impiety, according to me, continue to intertwine. One cannot exist without the other. If there was only piety in this world, then impiety would never be considered. If there was only impiety in this world, then piety wouldn’t be a thought in anyone’s mind. They both need each other to function properly. No one is ever just pious or impious, because everybody sins which would precisely be going against the gods. So really, if everyone is impious, then everyone should be prosecuted or sentenced to death? Or it only matters on the extent of the crime you commit, that proves you to be impious? But what if I think killing a person is not as bad as killing a farm animal, and you think the opposite? Well, then in court it would all come down to who has a better speaker present to defend them, because they are holding a court session based on difference of opinion. Also, if I am a judge of a courtroom, and I sentence someone to death, which is not technically killing them hands on, but it is I that produces their destiny, would the gods approve of my judgment? What if my judgment was false and the prosecuted was not guilty – would I or do I deserve to suffer through my eternal life after death because of my impiety? - Whether my impiety was intentional or unintentional, just or unjust, do those circumstances matter? I raise the question when looking at impiety: is it the journey we look upon a person that caused them to make their “impious” decision and their reasoning behind it, or is it just looking at their impious act as a whole instead of why they committed that act in the first place? Are we born impious and then try to become pious throughout our entire lives?-If so, where does the impiety come from? If the opposite, then why would someone turn into an impious person? And if there is an understandable reason for their impiety, then can it go unnoticed?
In the conversation between Socrates and Euthypro it seems that Socrates is trying to find the meaning of piety and impiety through Euthrypro because of his expertise and savviness of religion and the Gods. Does he really need the answer because he is being accused of this by Meletus,or is it the reality that he is answering his own question because he is indeed trying to make Euthypro question the act of impiety of his own father. Although this story leads one to believe that Socrates is seeking the meaning he is actually trying to teach Euthypro even though he is the "best instructed in religion," he must question what has been taught to him of the Gods and religion. Especially, when he is taking these belief's to the extreme act of prosecuting his own father. His concern did not lie in his own suit because he is a true believer of his own philosophies and how he carries them out, instead he was worried that the laws of the God's and religion were making his friend embark into a hasty decision that Socrate's was sure was not valid. Eurythpro is riddled and upset by what Socrate's is forcing him to face. He does not admit it and instead accuses him of having the "Daedalus" complex and makes arguments that go round and round. He grows weary of the Socrates'inquisition but only because he is actually making him question the act he is so set on perpetrating.
ReplyDeleteSaleem Bradley February 6th, 2011
ReplyDeleteEuthyphro: “Piety, then, is that which is dear to the gods, and impiety is that which is not dear to them.”
The dialogue between Socrates and Euthyphro is Socrates questioning Piety and impiety. After Socrates find out about the prosecution of Euthyphro’s father; he assumes Euthyphro is a specialist in religion. Socrates wants to learn the meaning of piety because this knowledge can be a possible advantage in his trial against Meletus. Euthyphro believes everything that is holy is because it is approved by the gods. Socarates brings a very good point in his opinion. What is determined to be approved by the gods and what is holy? The gods would have a disagreement with one another as to what exactly is approved on being holy. This would actually mean that it would be both holy and not holy at the same time because it is not a mutual decision. It does not make any sense. I was wondering what is considered holy and how come there wasn't any answers given in the dialogue?
Shaunelle Hall
ReplyDeleteFebruary 6, 2011
In the dialogue between Socrates and Euthyphro before the prosecution of Socrates, both men spoke of many topics but the questions that were at the center of their conversation was "what is the relationship between the gods and piety?" and "what is the true meaning of piety and impiety?". throughout the conversation Socrates wanted Euthyphro to enlighten him on the meaning of piety and impiety so that he can be at a better understanding and in turn be at a better advantage during the trial defending himself against Meletus accusations of corrupting the youth. Socrates questions "whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods". (Euthyphro by Plato) Euthyphro explains that "piety is loved by all gods. It is love because it is holy and not holy because it is love". (Euthyphro by Plato) I agree with Euthyphro's explanation because if it was to be the other way around where it is holy because it is loved and not loved because it is holy, it will result that all impiety is not always the opposite of piety and and in-just is not always the opposite of the just.
The story shows the conversation between Euthyphro and Socrates because both have a similar past on being accused. Euthyphro proves that he knows everything about religious which Socrates seeks to know about all the religious matters from Euthyprho because it can help him with his trial. Socrates hopes to learn the meaning of piety from Euthyphro because it will definitely help him against Meletus. According to Euthyphro, piety is persecuting religious offenders. I’ve learned that people have to question everything because it may lead to something good. Not only did Socrates received an answer from Euthyphro but also returned with a question.
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ReplyDelete2-6-11
ReplyDeleteSocrates wants to know from Euthyphro what piety is. Euthyphro is looked at as just because he even went as far as to punish his own father for leaving a murderer for dead. Euthyphro says that what the gods like is pious and what they don't like is impious . Socrates then states that what one god may like , another may not. What I got from this text is that what is good and bad depends on the person. Everyones standards are different and what is right for one person may not be right for the other. I think that people should decide for themselves what they want to follow and to do .
Socrates, continuously asks Euthyphro what is the difference between piety and impiety and what makes them different from each other. And through out the whole conversation, Socrates keeps asking Euthyphro the same question, in what seems like circles. But Socrates, just wants Euthyphro come to realize that maybe prosecuting his father for the murder was a mistake. Eventually, Euthyphro does come to realize his mistake, and ends up changing his definition of what piety is, again. In the second definition, Euthyphro’s new definition is Pious acts are loved by the Gods. Socrates, comes to prove to Euthypho that is some cases this can lead to contradictory. Because this can lead to contradiction in certain cases, Euthypho goes back to the drawing board in trying to define piety for Socrates. In his last definition, Euthypho again changes his definition of piety from “pious acts are loved by the gods.” to “pious acts are loved by all the gods.” Simply by adding “all” he makes it work for him. In order for Euthypho to realize his mistakes, he had Socrates prove his point by going in circle. Making it seem like Euthypho is slow at playing catch up at realizing his mistake(s).
ReplyDeleteJanee Rodriguez
ReplyDeleteI see that the meaning of piety is answered in this dialogue. It is not a straight forward answer for piety is viewed differently to different people, but it is the view of what is right and wrong. What society may hold as "pious" or correct may not alwasy be whats really right, as in the example of what Euthyphro gave Socrates. Socrates was shocked that he would prosecute his own father of murder, for it was seen as not right. Yet Euthyphro shows that the same way Socrates views of the gods is different than everyone elses, doesnt make it incorrect. I think this conversation may have helped Socrates in his speech.
(ERIK ROBLES)
ReplyDeleteSocrates is shocked as to how a son can take his own father to court and accuse him of murder. He becomes intrigued as to why he Euthypro taking this position. Euthypro claims to be the best theologian around and know all about the gods and asserted that what he is doing is right with the gods. Socrates becomes very desired into knowing more of whats the nature of piety? maybe if he gets a clear answer he'd be able to use it in his our court case. He insists on gaining a clear cut answer as to justice being piety or holiness? Euthyphro seems to circular reason this argument in claiming that piety is what gods like! and that it the gods imply whats right and wrong. What i understood from this dialouge is that the enhanced argument was weather HOW DOES SOMEONE KNOW HE'S DOING THE RIGHT THING? What is the foundation to distinguish whats right or wrong?If what we do is right because a god commands it? Being this a would say a Socrates try to proof are we now made like gods similar if we have problems and love and upsets amongst humans were no different then the gods (ZEUS toward Cronus) enabling us to solve our own problems. As Socrates used an example if him and Ethypro were arguing about a number th best way of going for it is by solving the problem and not causing it to make long time hate.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWho defines what is right and what is wrong? Are we, humans bound to a certain criteria of good and evil, just and unjust, honorable and dishonorable? In the dialogue between Euthyphro and Socrates a discussion transpires about piety and impiety, while the text is a little confusing, still, I think I have a good idea of what was written here. In the dialogue both men are up for days in court for different reasons, one is prosecuting a loved one and the other defending his name. The conversation begins with Socrates’ discussing the claim brought against him by his accuser Meletus, and it continues when Euthyphro informs Socrates’ that he will also have a day in court but for a completely different reason. Euthyphro tells Socrates that he will be prosecuting his father for murder; Socrates’ is baffled when he learns of this and proceeds to question Euthyphro about his actions. This is when the in-depth conversation about impiety and piety (or my definition, differentiating between right and wrong or good and evil) begins. Socrates’ is basically looking for knowledge from Euthyphro, since; Euthyphro is seen as wise in the eyes of Socrates’ accuser. Socrates tries to find the answer to what piety and impiety is and how Euthyphro can base his actions on these two ideas, he wants to learn something from Euthyphro so he can have an advantage in his own court trail.
ReplyDeleteShamia Mattry
ReplyDeletePHI 100 143
The passage was sort of difficult me. From my understanding Socrotes is trying to figure out what the meaning of piety is because he is being accusesed being pious. Soc. is trying to get information from Euth. so he can understand his own case. He believes that Socrates is so wise that he can get information so he can better undertand his own case.
Socrates seeks to know from Euthyphro the definition of piety and impiety. Euthyphro defines piety as anything that is dear to the Gods and impiety that which isn't. Yet Socrates questions his reasoning when he asks if the Gods ever admit to their guilt. Socrates seeks knowledge and wisdom from Euthyphro before presenting himself in court. yet he leaves Euthyphro doubting what he believed in.
ReplyDeleteIdavil Almachi
ReplyDeletePhi 100
Socrates is having a discussion with Euthyphro about piety and impiety. He seeks to learn from the known to be wise man Euthyphro the true definitions of piety and impiety because he is being accused of being an impious man by Meletus in court and he wants to know what it really means. Euthyphro is also going to court but for a completely different reason and Euthyphro used his situation as an example to what piety means, but Socrates did not want an example, he wanted a clear definition of the word. Euthyphro also stated that all that the gods love is pious and what they hate is impious. Socrates questions that statement because then that would mean that something can be pious because it is loved by the gods and not because it is actually good. But then again people can always have different perspectives on what is good or bad or right or wrong, and so the definitions of piety and impiety can be interpreted in different ways.
Sócrates seeks an answer to what it impiety and pity; and what it
ReplyDeletepious and impious. There for he wants to know why he is charged and
cannot away with the story about the gods, so he asks Euthyphro for
wisdom on this matter. He questions on Euthyphro believes in the gods,
Euthyphros' answer was very direct and simple; he tells Sócrates about
the ignorance of the world. He does believes in the gods despite him
knowing that there is ignorance; why doesn't he sees the point of the
pious and impious? Because in fact he has little to understand about
it, he can't answer the question unless Socrates helps him to define
it, making Socrates wiser than he is.
The relationship between gods and piety is that they both apply the
right doing; for them the right doing is to prosecute and punish dose
who have commited a crime. It doesn't matter the ocupation or
relationship because it does not make a difference. If they are not
prosecuted then it would be impiety; but whoever is being prosecuted
can ought not to go unpunish.
From the discussion I have concluded that Euthyphro has no right and
direct answer towards the questionasked by Socrates, doing justice
without knowing what is pity and what is pious had lead them to
prosecute the wrong way. I believe that if they know the difference
between both things would go differenty, at the time of finding the
acused guilty or not guilty. To them it matters more what the god has
to say then what the notion of truth and doing the right is.
Sócrates seeks an answer to what it impiety and pity; and what it pious and impious. There for he wants to know why he is charged and cannot away with the story about the gods, so he asks Euthyphro for wisdom on this matter. He questions on Euthyphro believes in the gods, Euthyphros' answer was very direct and simple; he tells Sócrates about the ignorance of the world. He does believes in the gods despite him knowing that there is ignorance; why doesn't he sees the point of the pious and impious? Because in fact he has little to understand about it, he can't answer the question unless Socrates helps him to define it, making Socrates wiser than he is.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between gods and piety is that they both apply the right doing; for them the right doing is to prosecute and punish dose who have commited a crime. It doesn't matter the ocupation or relationship because it does not make a difference. If they are not prosecuted then it would be impiety; but whoever is being prosecuted can ought not to go unpunish.
From the discussion I have concluded that Euthyphro has no right and direct answer towards the questionasked by Socrates, doing justice without knowing what is pity and what is pious had lead them to prosecute the wrong way. I believe that if they know the difference between both things would go differenty, at the time of finding the acused guilty or not guilty. To them it matters more what the god has to say then what the notion of truth and doing the right is.
The belief of being pious lies solely in the intentions of a person not in the laws of state or laws of the Gods. A clean conscious speaks volumes of the integrity of man and "God" or the final judge of our souls will determine us whether piety was implemented in our lives. There are times when our decisions make for impious results but that is not what important although that is what this story intends to argue.This loyalty to the Gods and what they believe to be pious or impious is where the conflict lies. With all decisions and life crossroads we have to look outside of rules or laws that have been engraved in our minds but examine what the repercussions our decisions will have on our lives and those of others.I think the most impacting line in this story comes from Cephalus who said "Speaking the truth and paying your debts is not the correct definitions of justice." " Hope he says, cherishes the soul of him who lives in justice and holiness and is the nurse of his age and the companion of his journey;-- hope which is mightiest to sway the restless soul of man." Peace within oneself is the ultimate goal and that which should be respected.
ReplyDelete